Implementing a Digital Credentialing Program

Digital credentialing can help motivate, educate and inspire learners. Torrie Raish, a digital credentials expert, joins us to explain all you need to consider before implementing a credentialing program.

 

Torrie Raish shares the challenges and benefits of launching a digital credentialing program. 

• Purpose and Value of Digital Credentials: When creating a digital credential program, it's crucial to understand its purpose and the value it brings to both the learners and those viewing it, such as employers or institutions. 
• Recognizing Learning: Digital credentials are powerful tools for capturing learning that might otherwise go unrecognized, providing more detailed insights into specific skills and competencies compared to traditional degrees. 
• Key Benefits for Learners and Employers: Digital credentials provide learners with stackable, portable proof of skills, and help employers identify specific, verifiable competencies in candidates, especially in fast-evolving fields. 
• Essential Considerations for Building a Program: When designing a digital credential system, it’s crucial to define its purpose, align it with learning outcomes, and ensure it integrates well with existing systems, including HR and educational platforms. 
• AI's Role in Digital Credentialing: Artificial Intelligence is enhancing digital credentialing in areas such as credential creation, assessment, and verification, making the process more efficient and scalable. 

About Torrie Raish: 

Victoria Raish is a senior leader in the field of online learning and microlearning with a particular interest in the crossover space between traditional academia and innovative educational applications. She has her Ph.D. in learning, design, and technology from Penn State University and a master’s degree from The University of Southern California. She works for Nexford University as a senior learning designer and was previously a tenured faculty member for Penn State University. She got her start in digital credentials as an intern for a NASA Educational Services Provider grant project developing badges for teacher professional development. From there she took on leadership roles with IMS Global (EdTech1), the Association for College and Research Libraries, and at her places of employment to elevate the visibility of digital credentials. Combined with several publications, Victoria has established her role as an expert in the space. 

Powered by Learning earned Awards of Distinction in the Podcast/Audio and Business Podcast categories from The Communicator Awards and a Gold and Silver Davey Award. The podcast is also named to Feedspot's Top 40 L&D podcasts and Training Industry’s Ultimate L&D Podcast Guide.

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Transcript

Susan Cort: The value of digital credentialing has grown significantly. 

Susan Cort: Over the years, they serve as verifiable proof that a learner has completed a course and they can motivate learners to succeed and grow in their roles. But there's a lot to consider before you develop a digital credentials program.

Torrie Raish: So I think it's a really important question, because to me, digital credentials, there is still, like, a lot of complexity that goes into designing a digital credentialing system, and so, I think you need to ask yourself, like, at the beginning, what is the purpose of me using digital credentials, and what is the value of this for the people that are earning them and then the people that are going to be viewing them.

Susan Cort: That's Torrie Raish, a digital credentials expert who will break down all you need to know about building a successful credentialing program - next on Powered by Learning.

Susan Cort: Joining me today is d'Vinci's Director, Learning Experience, Jenny Fedullo, and our guest, Victoria Raish. Tori is a senior leader in the [00:01:00] field of online learning and microlearning, and she's going to share her knowledge about digital credentialing. Welcome Torrie.

Jenny Fedullo: Hi, Torrie. Great to be with you today.

Torrie Raish: Thank you for having me.

Susan Cort: Torrie, let's start out by giving our listeners an idea of your background and experience in the instructional design and edtech areas.

Torrie Raish: Yeah, so I have been involved in online learning since 2010, and I've really had every role within online learning from being a learner. And various online learning platforms to being an instructional designer, a consultant, uh, and a program director, a senior leader of online learning and digital credentials, a research assistant.

Torrie Raish: So, uh, I've really, uh, a faculty member, so really in all facets of online of There are learning, both from learning in an online learning system to delivering The online learning. 

Torrie Raish:  I've really, you know, spent all of my [00:02:00] professional time, in some capacity, with learning, education, training, online learning, digital credentials, microlearning. So I've so I've published several articles in, in this space, both peer reviewed and then just popular articles that you can find online.

Torrie Raish: And I've consulted with a variety of levels of organizations and individuals from just individuals who are looking to build online courses all the way up to nonprofits and corporations who are looking to either design training or to uh, attempt to be more innovative and sort of at this forefront and this intersection between higher ed, corporate learning, and, and innovation. So that's the space that I really like to play in so, I think, just a bit about me. To get a sense of my personality is I got tenure at Penn State University, and I quit the next month after getting tenure to join a startup who we deliver online learning degrees and have some [00:03:00] digital credentials as well. And our primary learner population comes from emerging countries, so we have a tuition dependent on GDP. And are looking to scale and use technology as much as possible so that we continue offering low-cost degrees that are actually fully OER as well. And so that's, I think, a sense of my risk taking and where I like to be in terms of growing and building things and then looking for the next thing to, to grow and build.

Susan Cort: Well, this is definitely a next thing, and so many of our listeners want to learn more about digital credentialing, so we're excited to hear your, your, uh, your stories and your best practices. 

Torrie Raish: Yeah, 

Jenny Fedullo: Yeah, Torrie, for sure. I mean, just your background, Susan and I were like a kid in a candy store trying to, figure out what, where we should focus this, this podcast. So we, we appreciate it. So yeah, we did land on digital credentialing. So curious, you know, our listeners might think of, you know, traditional degrees or certifications 

Jenny Fedullo: Mm hmm. [00:04:00] certifications. Yeah. What, can you explain just what are digital credentials and how do they differ from, from traditional degrees or certifications? 

Torrie Raish: Yeah, I think, you know, you mentioned badges earlier, So I think that a lot of people will equate digital credentials to digital badges and and call them one in the same, which I think is pretty, common in the field. So when I say digital credential, digital badge or open badge. To me, they're all interchangeable terms. They sometimes mean different things technically, but we won't really get too much into the details of that today. So I think if you look at the landscape of those, and if you look at things like the credential engine or, uh, IMS global slash now at tech one and what they are doing with digital credentials and really developing the technology standards around them, um, they're You know, in some ways they're similar to degrees, right?

Torrie Raish: They're still recognizing learning. They're still capturing learning. I like to think of them as actually the most powerful digital credentials, in my [00:05:00] opinion, are capturing previously unrecognized learning. And so there's this, um, idea of digital credentials, and it's from way back in 2013. Actually, Rugenius wrote an article.

Torrie Raish: It was for a conference, an ICM conference, like a IT conference, and in that article he called digital credentials, or digital badges, talkative objects, with tails and condition and Conditionalities and , and those are, uh, I think, when I think about digital credentials, that article, even though I've read, and watched, and been in conversations with a lot of people in this space for a long time, that article always comes to my mind because it's really what you're providing when you issue a digital credential to somebody, whether it's training, or learning or development, is you're giving them this talkative, you're giving them articulated points about, about their learning and you're structuring the learning in a way that makes it clear for people what the goal of, of the learning is what you're designing [00:06:00] and what you need to do to get there, right? because it's really in a micro learning space.

Torrie Raish: , So what you do lose is a bit of the bigger context and the bigger connection between things, but what you gain is this uh, intricate level of detail at, at a smaller scale at a more granular scale, that that helps people articulate points that they might not have thought of before.

Torrie Raish: So a good example I think is uh, I had the opportunity to speak to an employer panel who goes to, you know, universities, to recruit talent. And Uh, you know there's, there's questions, and the technology has come a long way in terms of like what's, what can be read on resumes and that's not, that's not like my extreme area of expertise, but you know that that question and asking, you know, employers if they'd be willing to evaluate credentials or are employees, employers using credentials for their employees, those kinds of things. Like, those are, those are important questions. right at, at a scale level.

Torrie Raish: But I thought what was really interesting was, um, in that meeting with these employers, [00:07:00] uh, there was somebody from Johnson & Johnson, and obviously they're evaluating a lot of talent all the time. And they said, you know, when I go to these career fairs, at universities, uh, There might be 15 learners. who come up and talk to me, and 15 students. And I want to hear about their leadership expertise, that was just an example. And 14 of them will say the same group project, and that nobody else in the group did their job, and they came together, and they saved the group, and they, they built healthy groups, team dynamics, and it's not very memorable.

Torrie Raish: And the learners sort of struggle to make a point. Whereas, if you were going to give somebody a leadership experience and recognize it through a badge, you're naturally, as long as you're designing the badge well, you're naturally building in some articulation points, building in that cognitive dissonance at the beginning for them to recognize, you know, that they're really focused on leadership here, and this is what we're focused on with leadership, and then you give them some reflection and some [00:08:00] transfer. after the fact. So, if somebody came with that not only would it stick out because it's different, but it would show initiative, and it would show that somebody is able to clearly communicate their points. So, in terms of differing from a traditional degree, you know that granularity

Torrie Raish: I think, I think is important and the digital nature of digital credentials, I think, is also important, right?

Torrie Raish: Because, this is also, like, a potential challenge that we'll get to later, but the ability to, store the data digitally, and really to give learners ownership of their data, is very different than traditional. degrees where you might still need to go through the registrar and, and request this transcript, or request that transcript and , you're looking a high level overview and summary of that person and you don't really know what the classes are. It's not clear what the classes are. There's not a lot of metadata behind it. You sort of trust the degree that it's preparing the learner. Um, and so when you get into digital credentials, really you give the learner ownership and portability over their [00:09:00] credentials and allow them to package,

Torrie Raish: um, their learning and represent it in ways that they can't do with a traditional transcript.

Jenny Fedullo: You know, I was thinking about how, you know, how, how are digital credentialing, how could they benefit the learners and employers and I think you just touched on that a little bit. Can you elaborate a little bit further?

Torrie Raish: Yeah, so I think that there is, you know, a lot of ways actually that it could benefit the learner or the employer, and I think it depends on, you know, what you're looking for and what your, what your use case are, and I talked a bit about already, like, this recognizing unrecognized learning. I think, the other thing that you can do is really stack your learning.

Torrie Raish: So from a learner perspective, let's say that you um, are going to, like, pursue a bachelor's degree, But you don't finish it. Uh, you can use, if you are pursuing digital credentials. you at least have some artifact of the effort that you've made in certain spaces, even if [00:10:00] you don't complete a full degree.

Torrie Raish: So it recognizes some learning at a smaller level, so it gives you some stackable credentials. It also allows you to then pursue additional learning. You know, credentials based on what you've already learned. And I think, you know, particularly in fields that don't have recognized credentials.

Torrie Raish: So, when I was at Penn State, we did most of the badging research we did was actually around employer perceptions of digital credentials and in what industries, particularly what industries are more interested in digital credentials and what industries aren't as interested And I think it's, it's sort it's sort of intuitive, but you know, industries like teaching, Or medical, that already have, like recognized pathways to being certified and getting exams and getting their professional licensing and those sorts of things.

Torrie Raish: Digital credentials, while they could still have a space there if you're teaching other things like power skills, they're not [00:11:00] necessarily available. like a super needed in those fields because they're already recognized. pathways. But then When you go into other fields like manufacturing, and IT, there's the there's natural interest in finance, as well.

Torrie Raish: There's natural interest in digital credentials because those types of established, you know, certs and state exams and whatnot aren't, aren't necessarily there in those spaces.

Torrie Raish: And so it gives the learner ownership of their learning and it gives the employer greater insight into, um, some, you know, additional learning that, that perhaps was, was unrecognized and unverified before that that person has. Yeah,

Jenny Fedullo: I can see some applicability in sales and marketing, would you agree? That that might be a market that there would be interest.

Torrie Raish: I mean, I think sales, sales and marketing, advertising as well, product development, 

Jenny Fedullo: Right. That's what I was…

Torrie Raish: a huge into product development as well. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of space for it in any of the [00:12:00] industries where They struggle, there's a struggle with, you know, recruiting talent and, um, getting people with the right skill sets and knowing what those right skill sets are, particularly when maybe they didn't major in a field related

Torrie Raish: to what they want to go into or the field is changing so quickly that you have to Constantly level up to show that you are, like, keeping up in the field and you know what you're doing.

Torrie Raish: So, like, even in engineering, you might get an engineering degree, but then, you know, you come back two years later as an alumni and everything is, like, a lot of things have changed in the field. So instead of going back and getting a full degree again, you just, you know, you know, it's focused on these short courses recognized with digital credentials or PDFs or whatever you want to recognize them with, and then you maintain your relevance and your, your professional development as well.

Torrie Raish: So it's helpful for, you know, students in college. It's also helpful for people that are going back [00:13:00] to, to get additional training to upskill, all that kind of thing, stuff.

Jenny Fedullo: Understood. Okay, so those on the call listening, you know what, they're like, yes, I'm bought in. I get it. I understand what it is. I understand the benefits. Where do they start? What are the key steps and considerations involved in establishing a program?

Torrie Raish: Yeah, I think it's a good question, and I think part of it depends on, like, who you are, because the questions that you're going to ask, well, obviously there's strategy questions, and there's logistic questions, and detailed questions, and what system are you going to use? Like, those questions exist for everybody. But I think what questions you really focus on depends on who you are, right? Because if you're somebody in K 12, you're going to have different questions than somebody in higher ed that's going to have different questions than somebody in corporate, right? So, like, somebody in K 12 might be focused on, you know, how these credentials can increase equity.

Torrie Raish: They might also be focused on how the digital credentials can help meet state standards or where they fit into standardized test or, you know, [00:14:00] digital credentials can go on the common app. So, so how are we putting them on the common app for learners? And then you get to like higher ed. And obviously you have to worry about accreditation and you have to worry about eligibility.

Torrie Raish: You know, your faculty senate and approval of curriculum and, and, um, the registrar has a huge role to play at the, at the higher level, higher ed level in terms of issuing these credentials because, uh, I'm sure some people on the call are going to like chuckle at this, but, you know, like, There's countless examples of professors just printing certs off their printer in their office and giving them to learners and it not really coming from a registrar or anything like that and then learners will go back to that institution and say like, oh, I want this, XYZ certificate, it came from Professor, you know, ABC's desk and the registrar has like no record of that, right?

Torrie Raish: So the registrar, the registrar has to get involved too. And then if you're talking about corporate, you know, you have more, a bit more like innovation and less accountability [00:15:00] to accreditation or those, those sorts of things. But then you have to worry about I think a bit more I think about like budget and revenue and employee like growth pathways and why, why are you using digital badges so I think some of those fundamental questions about why you want to do this depend on who you are But then, once you get into the space, I think there's very common things that you need to figure out. Like, you need to figure out purpose is of the digital credentials are. You need to figure out how you're going to design the digital credentials and the design factors a lot into, You know, how much capacity do you have for assessment? Do you need to scale the assessment? Is it going to be manual assessment? What is the evidence that you're going to generate, right?

Torrie Raish: Because there's, that's really like one of the powerful things of digital credentials is that an employer can click on them and see exactly what the evidence is. There's metadata there so they can see exactly what the learner or their employee or whatever did in relation to that digital credential? So, like, how are [00:16:00] you going to verify that. evidence? Um, how are you going to store the evidence? Where does it show up for the learner? Those are all important questions from a design perspective. And, obviously, You know, you have your own beliefs about what instructional design model you use and what training needs analysis you use. So that's, that's standard no matter what kind of learning object you're creating, right?

Torrie Raish: Like if you're creating a full course or a digital credential, like those kind of questions are, are relatively common. But then when you think about credentials, you know, some of the other things are like, is this going to generate revenue for us? What kind of resources do we need to, do we need to put into this, 

Torrie Raish: How is it going to get adopted, What's our adoption going to look like? which is, like a critical question, right? Because you could build something, there might be a need for it, but if you don't, have a plan for marketing it, and getting it into the hands of the people that want it, then it doesn't make any sense, right? So, like, I think IBM, has done a great job of, designing digital credentials that map to actual jobs within IBM that if somebody wants to get that, you know, next [00:17:00] position they're already at IBM, they know that they, if they pursue these digital credentials, you know, it increases their, 

Torrie Raish: their, um, attractiveness to, to the job that they want to get. Right? So like, that's an obvious incentive to to complete a digital credential is to, like, level up and, grow in your career. But if if you don't have it tied to career pathways, then really, like, what are the incentives, behind somebody completing a digital credential?

Torrie Raish: Like what's their, what's the value that the people place on it? And how are you going to communicate that value both internally and externally? And then you know, deciding what digital credential system to use, I think is another another big starting big starting point, right? so there's, um, 

Susan Cort: are a bunch on the market. 

Torrie Raish: There's a bunch on the market. yeah, and I think, you know, I think, this number is not exactly accurate, but there's around 23 digital credentialing systems that are, um, Um, edtech1 approved, So that means that they meet the open badge technical portability, which is really, important because otherwise, you're just picking a [00:18:00] system where the badge just lives within that system, and it can never go anywhere. else. So, you know, that would be something like you would be issuing a badge like, I don't know, in Code Academy or something like that.

Torrie Raish: That's an example of like a closed badge It's not going to go anywhere else. It stays within that system like Squarespace, that app, those kinds of things, or. Like, I don't know, Call of Duty or whatever that issues badges. There's those kind of badges, but we're talking about badges that need to be portable and be able to go to different systems, whether you migrate or the learner keeps their learning and migrates it somewhere else.

Torrie Raish: So, you need to make sure that it is an EdTech1 certified system and then from there, obviously, all of the systems have different pros and cons, so you have to do your appropriate vendor evaluation of the systems and decide from a cost perspective and from a design feature perspective which system makes the most sense to you, which is, which is going to fit for, for what you're, what you're doing.

Torrie Raish: And then, of course, you know, you have to ask questions then [00:19:00] around, once you're done with, you know, all that stuff, like what the implementation looks like, how you're going to onboard people, how you're going to educate people around what this digital credential means, um, what it, what the value is, how they can communicate what they've learned, how they can communicate the digital credential, what the visibility is. . Then you come to evaluation, how are you going to evaluate the success of what you do in your program? How are you going to iterate? Do you have a maintenance plan? because, you know, when you talk about digital credentials, like, they are digital.

Torrie Raish: So what's your, do you have an expiration date on them, right? So like, if you're going to issue a digital badge for first aid, it's like an obvious example. obviously you need to have an expiration date because your first aid license doesn't last forever. So, you know, you have your, you know, CPR and first aid badge, and you can, let's say that you, in the summer, work as a lifeguard or whatever, you can show that you already have it, right? Like you have this, this credential, and you can produce it, um, but obviously it has to [00:20:00] expire at a certain point in time, because you don't remember first aid and CPR, and, the, um, whatever, breathing numbers change and those kinds of things. So, you have to, get recertified, right? So you do you have an expiration date around, your, your digital credential and, uh, If somebody like wants to earn it, do they have to pay for it or is it, is it just included as part of, you know, their role within your company?

Torrie Raish: So there's all sorts of questions and, um, what, what do you want to capture with digital credential? Like training, basic training needs questions as well. So, 

Jenny Fedullo: these are all great considerations. Absolutely.

Susan Cort: wait, when you think about, uh, sorry, 

Susan Cort: when you think about all those questions, you know, if you're a corporation maybe thinking about this for internal purposes or an organization, uh, maybe looking to credential external audiences, you know, how do you, work through all of those questions, all that whole process, sometimes not even knowing what the questions are, and to try to evaluate whether you're better off sticking with some sort of internal [00:21:00] PDF of a certificate versus taking this leap.

Torrie Raish: yeah, yeah, it's a really important question, right, and I've, I've talked to a lot of people about digital credentials, met with a lot of different people when I was at Penn State who had, who worked in different departments, met with a lot of people outside of Penn State because for like four years I was co chair of the IMS's Global Innovation Learning Network around digital credentials, so we would meet and meet in person and meet online to talk about, you know, important issues that we were seeing in the space, people that were actively in the space, right? So I think it's a really important question, because to me, digital credentials, even if you don't have to deal with, you know, like, let's say the accreditation issues, or the faculty senate control at the higher ed level, and you have, more flexibility in that, there is still, like, a lot of complexity that goes into designing a digital credentialing system, and so, I think you need to ask yourself, like, at the beginning, what is the purpose of me using digital credentials, [00:22:00] and what is the value of this for the people that are earning them and then the people that are going to be viewing them.

Torrie Raish: . So, you know, I think a lot of it, it really comes down, and if you look at, um, in 2015, Dan Hickey et al wrote a white paper about really what's been learned in the digital badging space, and I think it's still relevant today, and if you look at, look at that paper, it talks about, like, the successes and the failures, and where a digital credential has succeeded, and it looks at the 30 grant recipients from the Missoula and MacArthur Foundation.

Torrie Raish: So, it looks at like who succeeded and who didn't, and why they succeeded and why they didn't, and and over and over again you'll see that it comes down to, you know, what's your purpose of using these, why are you going to use them, what's the value of using these, what's, are they, you know, just a. participation badge, or is there, is there additional value behind issuing these in some way that we're, we're previously doing a disservice to people by by, not offering something like this, right? So, so like some [00:23:00] clubs or whatever might issue badges to try to incentivize people to join, like oh, if you earn five badges, you'll Discount on this, or discount on that, right?

Torrie Raish: And so, like, that's one level of importance. But then also, you know, you could be more interested in verifying. You're having difficulty verifying. And so, like, you can use digital credentials to verify skills or to endorse, endorse people in certain areas. Um, they're particularly good for recognizing Things like power skills and, like I said, stuff that's, that's previously sort of been, like, unrecognized or just assumed or implicit as a competency in people.

Jenny Fedullo: lot of considerations, but yeah, I love the, the summary there at the end with the, the key. Um, points that you made. That's super, super helpful. Artificial intelligence. Everyone's talking about it. Every industry. What about here? How, how is AI being utilized to, to enhance the digital credentialing process?

Torrie Raish: Yeah, I think AI is being used in all aspects of digital [00:24:00] credentialing, from creation to assessment to verification and evaluation and endorsement of what the credentials are. And then, obviously, AI is also being used in other systems that digital credentials feed into, so. Like, human resource evaluation systems, um, like applications, everything like that, right, where AI is being used.

Torrie Raish: And so, uh, literally I can't, like, I wouldn't be able to survive without using AI for my own work. Like, I couldn't get anything

Jenny Fedullo: Oh, Agreed. 

Torrie Raish: the speed that I have to get It done. Like, it's, it saves so much time, and allows you to focus on, you know, more creative and complex things that you need to do. so, I think, You know, if you're talking about design of credentials, AI can certainly help with, you know, What your objectives are, what your outline is, what your assessment measures might be, um, you know, using prompts to come up with different options for a hierarchy of digital credentials, because we haven't [00:25:00] even talked about that, but if you're going to issue more than one credential, you're going to have a pathway for somebody.

Torrie Raish: And so what does that pathway look like? What makes the most sense? You can use artificial, artificial intelligence to help you organize all of those thoughts. But then also, You know, you can use artificial intelligence obviously to help verify the credentials, right? So there's this been this there's a question and like a running question and a you know, skeptical question from people about you know How do we know that this is legitimate?

Torrie Raish: How do we know that this is, you know, verified? And so there was talk for a long time about blockchain being used to help verify and do trust enablement. And I think AI is rapidly involved in that, in that space as well, in terms of that verification and endorsement space. And then, obviously, you can also use AI for assessment and evaluation of your credentials. So when I was, actually, when I was at Penn State, we developed an AI called Text on Target, and it was used in the, at the evaluation level, [00:26:00] because, um, when I was at Penn State, we actually had a bit of a unique situation, in that we had developed our own digital credentialing system, digital badging system, and it's no longer used, but, um, We're mostly technology security reasons and just the upkeep on systems like that, and the tendency of higher education to just choose external vendors now instead of building things in house. And, so, we develop this tool called Text on Target because, Penn State's digital system was also a content management system, which you don't see in, digital technology. I don't think any other digital credentialing system. And so we could actually build, So most credentialing systems just house the evidence and the steps and issue the credentials. But we could actually build the 

Torrie Raish: What the learner had to do, like they submitted text boxes or files or these sorts of things into the digital credentialing system. So we were evaluating in the system, like actually providing feedback to learners.

Torrie Raish: And so, obviously that feedback, [00:27:00] while it is, you know, customized and answers specific questions, obviously it gets repetitive. because you see this similar response over and over again. particularly when It's the most common response. And so this system, Text on target, we analyzed all of the existing responses to specific steps and generated the most common response based on the data that was in there.

Torrie Raish: And so then, when you would go into evaluate, it would already have a response there, and you would just have to customize it if you wanted to, or just just approve what what was in there. So, gave you suggested text right So it helps to augment and scale evaluations, right? So I think, you know, there's that, isn't there that website, there's an AI for that?

Torrie Raish: I think it's, just, I think it's true like, here as well. And so, yeah, I'm you know, I'm sure the Credlys and the, and the, Badgers and the Canvas Badges of the world. and the Accredibles are, are actively using AI in their work within their platforms. And then anything that you have to do with those key questions that I mentioned above, like [00:28:00] AI can be used in, in any of those ways ways, as well.

Jenny Fedullo: I appreciate that. So I know earlier you had mentioned a challenge. Um, can you elaborate more on, on what are some of those key challenges that those listening should, should think about when they're implementing a digital credentialing system?

Torrie Raish: Yeah, I think that there are, um, definitely a lot of considerations to, to make when you're deciding if you want to go down this road and, and create or further your, your digital credentialing system or rethink how it's being used, right? 

Torrie Raish: I think We've already talked about this but placing value on the credential because um, you could, you could create limitless credentials, right? And at some point you start um, depleting the value, minimizing the value of, of what you're doing and what it means to issue credential to somebody so you have to decide, you know, do we have multiple levels of credentials, do we have these pathways, Do they stack? What do we want to issue credential for? What's credential worthy? What's [00:29:00] not, right? So there's all this question around value, and it's really up to you to build and communicate the value of your digital credential. Uh, and then I think There's, you know, considerations and challenges around external and internal stakeholders. So, you know, if you're collaborating and partnering with somebody else, obviously there needs to be conversations around accepting digital credentials as evidence of learning, You have to make sure that you're investing, you know, the appropriate resources, and if you're investing together or building together, is there shared revenue?

Torrie Raish: is there shared investment, what does the strategic alignment look like with everybody involved in the digital credentialing platform, Uh, what what sort of human capital are you going to invest into it as well, and then you know, When you get to, you know, verifying and endorsing you have to think about what do your assessments look like, what does the evidence look like that's provided, what kind of evidence that a learner submits is going to be acceptable, so do you have rubrics that somebody [00:30:00] needs to follow, or is it going to be relatively easy to earn earn, the credential and rubrics aren't needed.

Torrie Raish: So you have to think about how you're going to verify and and issue a credential to somebody. If you decide that somebody doesn't receive the credential because they haven't met the established criteria, can they try again, right? Or do they have to do something before they can try again. So, once you get into the weeds, there's all these additional questions that pop up.

Torrie Raish: And then you have to ask yourself about yourself about integration integration with existing systems. So once you pick the technology, the badge issuing platform you want to use is your content stored somewhere else? How does that connect? If you're a higher education institution or K 12, how does it connect to your student information system?

Torrie Raish: How does it connect to your study system? Um, grading system? and How transcripts are issued? If you are uh, an employer or you're designing them for professional development for your staff, does it, does it relate to your internal, you know, HR platforms? Do you need a [00:31:00] CRM? uh, to keep track of, you know, customer relationship management?

Torrie Raish: All those sorts of things, um, what are the, Policies and procedures, are there application systems and other HR systems that, that you need to be aware of, like does it incorporate with, for example, Workday. or, or, You know, all of those sorts of things. So, uh, any of the SAS software. So I think that there is, like, a lot of consideration with integration with existing systems.

Torrie Raish: But if you pick a platform that is EdTech1 certified, then you at least know that you've picked a technology that is capable of the integration and hopefully your other systems are as well.

Jenny Fedullo: Right, so you don't have all those other questions or considerations to worry about if you know that you picked the right platform. 

Torrie Raish: right, right. 

Jenny Fedullo: , what do you envision for the future of digital credentialing? Where, where's it going to be in five to ten years? [00:32:00] across,

Torrie Raish: I think that the, the money that's going into, to digital credentials right now is. is a lot.

Torrie Raish: And if you look at like the digital credential engine, for example, um, you know, they have great stats up front. For example, they have, you know, stats around training investment, right? So there's like 60, 000, nearly 60, 000 credential providers across the U. S. and over 2. 13 trillion dollars is spent in education and training. And There's been issued over 1. 076 million credentials in the U. S. And those are just the ones that are stored in the credential engine. right? So that's not even all of the credentials that are out there. So I would say, from that perspective, like, it's only going to grow.

Torrie Raish: Because, I think, skills based training, skills based hiring, everything that's related to digital credentials, particularly in some industries, has been relatively slow to take off. Like, people say, that they're willing to hire this way. and they're willing to look at things this way, but then, [00:33:00] the default is still transcripts and degrees, because that's what people are familiar with, so I I think, you know, this alignment with with skills based, particularly where there's industry shortages, or like short term industry shortages, like in the microchip industry, you know, there was like a ton of shortages or is a ton of shortages, but it's not necessarily a long term problem.

Torrie Raish: So I think looking at the labor industry and labor data, and identifying these areas where like, Microlearning and short shorter credentials can help because obviously, like, if you earn a whole degree in

Torrie Raish: semiconductors, like, you're behind the eight ball already because something else has happened, so. In these spaces where, like, technology is changing quickly, I think short courses, digital credentials, recognizing learning that way are going to become really important. And So I think, you know, um, back in 2016, we asked employers how many would be willing to accept, digital credentials. and only 5 percent said no. But there was, like, only 30 percent said yes. So there was like this very large [00:34:00] maybe section. So also I would, I would hope that over the next five to 10 years, the maybes turn more into yeses, and it just becomes a standard practice to to evaluate credentials, in Uh, really no matter what the industry is, to be willing to to look at and and evaluate credentials. Um, so yeah, I would say that those are, those are some of the ways that I think digital credentials are going to grow and evolve in the next five to ten years, and if I had to guess, what was going to happen from a platform perspective, I would say we will not have, like, 23 to 25 platforms. I would say that they're going to merge and consolidate, and you're going to end up with just, a, you know, a few of the major players that that dominate the market share. Um, you know, the same way with learning management systems. There's, like, a gazillion learning management systems, but there's only, like, a handful that are. You know, known and regularly used by everybody, so 

Torrie Raish: I think that it will sort of evolve The technology and the vendors and the companies that issue credentials will evolve like that and then, you know, [00:35:00] I think there will still be the same challenges we talked about today are probably going to be there in five to ten years, but hopefully we've solved some of them. And then some new challenges will crop up, as like mass adoption, and, you know, like the innovation curve. So, like as more and more people evolve. adopt digital credentials, obviously you'll maybe the needing to educate around what they are.

Torrie Raish: becomes less, but now everybody has them, so the, you know, is it is it a diluted credential, and how do you then still upscale and differentiate yourself, right? So, and the equity questions?

Torrie Raish: I think, remain as well and need to be at the forefront of, of everything related to, to digital credentials.

Torrie Raish: So, yeah, those are some of the ways that I think the, the industry is going to evolve in the next 5 to 10 years.

Susan Cort: Torrie, there's so much to consider, obviously, but So, many great opportunities. and I think people listening to this interview, you've moved a lot from the maybe column to the yes column. So 

Torrie Raish: Hopefully. 

Susan Cort: thank you. for sharing. Thank you for sharing 

Jenny Fedullo: I enjoyed the conversation. It's a really fascinating topic, for sure. 

Torrie Raish:  Yeah, thank [00:36:00] you very much for the opportunity to speak about digital credentials today.  I really enjoyed the conversation today. 

Susan Cort: There's certainly a lot to consider when starting a digital credentials program, Jenny.

Jenny Fedullo: Right, you're telling me, what a lot of information, but I mean, it's clear after speaking with Torrie that the world of digital credentialing is, it's exciting and rapidly evolving, and I think it's clear that as we look to the future, digital credentials is going to really play a significant role in shaping, you know, our workforce and how we measure learning or, you know, certify learning.

Susan Cort: Absolutely. Well, thanks, Jenny. And special thanks to our guest Torrie Raish for joining us today. If you have an idea for a topic or a guest, please reach out to us at poweredbylearning@dvinci.com and don't forget that you can subscribe to Powered by Learning wherever you listen to your podcasts.