[00:00:00] Susan Cort: A workplace assessment only creates lasting value when it becomes part of how people work together.
Terrence McCorkle: Buy-in is important. So you would definitely want to make sure that hopefully leadership is bought in. That does help. We've seen a lot of success when we do roll initiatives out with buy-in at the top. But also too, just making sure it's not treated as a one-time assessment. The work should be ongoing. And also too, you know, showing the value of, of using it.
Susan Cort: That's Terrence McCorkle of Texas 811. He and Shakheana Harrison explain how they have embedded working genius into onboarding, hiring, meetings, coaching, and project work. They explore how a shared language can help employees feel understood, collaborate more effectively, and spend more time doing work that energizes them. They join d’Vinci's Christine Kurtz and me next on Powered by Learning.
Announcer: Powered by Learning is brought to you by d'Vinci Interactive. [00:01:00] d'Vinci's approach to learning is grounded in 30 years of innovation and expertise. We use proven strategies and leading technology to develop solutions that empower learners to improve quality and boost performance. Learn more at dvinci.com.
Susan Cort: Joining me now are d'Vinci Lead Instructional Designer Christine Kurtz, and our guests from Texas 811, Terrence McCorkle, Director of Leadership and Development, and Shakheana Harrison, Chief People Officer.
Welcome to Powered by Learning.
Christine Kurtz: Thanks for joining us
Terrence McCorkle: Thank you. Happy to be here. Just thanks so much for the invitation and being here, honestly.
Shakheana Harrison: Yeah, I'm super excited for today's conversation.
Susan Cort: Well, we are as well. Let's start off, uh, Terrance, by sharing what Texas 811 does and what your role is, and then Shakheana, you can tell us a little bit about your role as well
Terrence McCorkle: Sure. Um, so Texas 811, um, basically we protect underground infrastructure. So anytime any digging is taking place in the state of Texas, it is required by law to call and get those utility lines [00:02:00] marked. Um, and we take those calls. So, uh, that is what we do. Um, our mission is centered around safety, uh, damage prevention, and protecting communities. Um, as far as my role, um, I'm the director of leadership and development, uh, at Texas 811. Um, and of course, I'm responsible for leadership and development, um, onboarding, coaching, performance management, um, along with, uh, several other things. Uh, but those are my, my primary focuses
Shakheana Harrison: And, um, as the chief people officer, I have, uh, leadership and development under my umbrella, so what Terrence just mentioned, as well as HR, human resources. So compensation, benefits, um, of those types of things fall under that umbrella.
Christine Kurtz: Great. Thank you for those introductions. Shakheana, can you tell us a little bit more about the history of your organization's leadership and development department, and then maybe shed some light on what the current state is?
Shakheana Harrison: Sure. So we [00:03:00] just introduced learning and development to our organization in 2022. We had informal trainings before then, um, but we did not have a department dedicated to learning and development. In around 2019, I approached our CEO and told him that I thought there was an opportunity for us to focus more on leadership at the organization. At that time, I was pursuing my MBA with a focus in leadership, and I was learning a lot of things that I didn't know ha- and I had been in leadership for a while at that time. So he basically said he agreed, and would I like to explore that opportunity? And at the moment, I was not ready. Um, a couple of years later, he, um, kind of drew a line in the sand and made me choose, and I chose to pursue that avenue at that time.
So early 2022, we, um, introduced L&D, [00:04:00] and I was in Terrence's role actually for about a year and a half until we did a reorg, and I became the CPO, and shortly after, Terrence became L&D director.
Susan Cort: And the three of you actually met at the Common Ground Alliance Conference. Christine, you, you heard a presentation they gave, correct?
Christine Kurtz: Yeah, so there's so many different options for sessions that you can attend. It's a big conference, and the title of theirs stood out to me. I thought it sounded so interesting. So, you were talking about the working genius and leadership development in that session. Can you tell us more, Terrence, about what the working genius is and how you're using it at Texas 811?
Terrence McCorkle: Absolutely. Um, so, uh, it is a framework basically developed by Patrick Lencioni. Um, and it more, uh, different from other assessment because it focuses more on productivity, um, versus just personality alone. Um, so as far as how we're using it or what it is the idea behind it is there are six different types [00:05:00] of geniuses, and all six geniuses are needed to form a healthy team or to, to get work done. Um, so those six geniuses it starts with wonder. Uh, you have invention, discernment, uh, galvanizing, enablement, and tenacity. Um, and pretty much those are kind of broken down into three different categories. You have your working geniuses, which is areas that you thrive in, where you enjoy doing the work.
And then you have competencies. Um, so two working geniuses and then two competencies. Those are areas that you're probably really good at, but you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in that pace. And then, uh, the third area would be frustrations, and those are things that just naturally either just burn you out easily or they just don't give you energy.
Um, so this framework is so unique because it helps you understand like what your geniuses are and, uh, where you get energy. Um, another part of the framework is really, uh, it focuses on judgment and guilt, uh, for feeling maybe you don't like to get people rallied up to do something. Uh, so you can better [00:06:00] understand that like once you know your working geniuses, and you can invite someone with that genius to do that work for you, um, if need be.
Terrence McCorkle: Uh, but um, as far as how we're using it, we're using it pretty much in every settings. It's introduced in the onboarding process when we're onboarding new hires. Um, we use it for team projects. Uh, we use it for meetings as well. Um, and overall just for strategy just to make sure that, um, we're following every stage, uh, so that we can execute properly.
Um, there are three different stages of work also too in this framework, which is ideation, uh, activation, and implementation. And the idea behind it is for a project to be successful or an initiative,
Terrence McCorkle: going through all three phases of work, um, and, uh, including all geniuses, uh, to kind of make it happen, and that's how we're using it.
So it also creates a, a shared language, um, which has been, uh, really helpful
Susan Cort: You know, we... You talked, Shekinah, about how there wasn't a department, and then we've got this [00:07:00] great solution. How did you get to that point going from nothing to what sounds like a great framework?
Shakheana Harrison: my gosh, that's such a great question because we first started, we were so excited. So we were introducing all the…
Christine Kurtz: Yeah
Shakheana Harrison: all the things. Like, we had all the different frameworks, all the thought leaders, and bringing all of their things into the organization, and we thought everyone else would be excited about them too. And we were told it was, there was a lot. Like, it was like, uh, drinking from, um, a fire hose.
Christine Kurtz: I don't know
Shakheana Harrison: And had to start thinking, "How can we introduce something more strategically that's more digestible?" And we decided to focus on two frameworks, and The Working Genius was one that stood out. Uh, interestingly enough, Terrence mentioned guilt and judgment, and the reason our, um, CEO introduced The Working Genius to me, which was before I became the director of L&D, was because I [00:08:00] have discernment as a genius.
And of course, because I had it, I thought everyone could do it, and I would get frustrated
Christine Kurtz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shakheana Harrison: I felt like we were about to hit the brick wall and nobody else was noticing. And so, um, that's, that was my introduction to it. I took the assessment. I went and got certified. Our entire L&D team are, certified facilitators in The Working Genius.
And once it started making traction and people started adopting it outside of us, out- outside of L&D driving the ship, we knew we had reached a point of success within the organization. So that's how we kind of landed on The Working Genius, because we started to see that traction built over time
Christine Kurtz: Very interesting. You touched on this a little bit, Terrence, but if you could be more specific. I feel like we've all taken the personality assessment and then, and you get your results, and you're like, "Oh, this is what you are," and then you never hear about it again. Yeah. Um, but it sounds like you've done a really great job at keeping it part [00:09:00] of, like you said, this shared language and part of your culture.
How do you ensure that it does stay front of mind and part of the conversation, and is a tool that's continued to be used?
Terrence McCorkle: Yeah. Um, I think a few ways. One is we have the initial workshop, but we host workshops quarterly, and we encourage people to, even if you've been through it one time, to go through it another time. We, uh, each time we add something different, um, something more, uh, that, you know, creates value to someone who may have already been through it. So I'd say that way, and also to just being a little bit intentional about how you create that. Maybe, uh, it's a brainstorming meeting and you know that going in. Um, being able to state that and be able to point to the working genius as far as where you should be, um, as far as altitude, uh, in that particular uh, helps. Uh, so we use it there. We're also too mindful when we're introducing new things to, is there an opportunity to incorporate working genius there too? For example, [00:10:00] we were looking for, um, a performance management platform, and we came across one that had working genius, uh, embedded into it, uh, to where you could see geniuses in a meeting and, um, things of that sort.
So really just being intentional on how we, uh, introduce stuff and also too how we connect it back to other things that are going on.
Christine Kurtz: I love that. I love it
Shakheana Harrison: a little bit to that too? Um, the, we also are very intentional about even, like, using it with hiring. So if we know we're going into a specific, um, we need a specific skill set or genius for a role, like innovation for instance, we just hired for innovation. Invention being someone's genius and innovation is like, that's critical.
Like, that's, that's something that would, someone's gonna come in loving that type of work. And so we're, we add it in. So we ask, uh, hiring managers, like, "What geniuses are you looking for in this particular role, and [00:11:00] what frustrations do you want to avoid?" Um, that's something else that we do. The other thing I think that we've done is through project management, um, we're thinking about geniuses too.
So we're, again, like Terrence said, bringing people in to ensure all geniuses are represented. And if someone, if we're doing a meeting, like what we call our WID meetings, which are typically those brainstorming meetings, when we are inviting people who don't have those geniuses, we're asking them to sit on the balcony, if you will, and observe versus interjecting so that we keep that altitude at the level we want it to be.
Because otherwise we'll, we'll experience turbulence, which does happen when we're all over the place, um, in a meeting
Christine Kurtz: Yeah.
Susan Cort: Who's ever all over the place in a meeting? Is this the kind of thing you come back to from time to time? I mean, it sounds like it's part and parcel of everything you do, but like once you knew your, your genius is , do you [00:12:00] retake the evaluation at some point? I mean, as your job changes and you grow as a leader.
Shakheana Harrison: Mm-hmm. It's interesting you ask that because I did just recently retake it for the first time in four years, and my geniuses remained the same, which are discernment and invention. However, my competencies and frustrations shifted, and I think it makes sense that they shifted because before my frustrations were enablement and wander. Um, and now my frustrations are enablement and tenacity. But I'm in a role now where I'm delegating much more, and I'm not in the work, in the weeds of work as much, and so I don't have to do those things. Whereas when I took it the first time, I was a one-person department, and so I did have to execute on work a lot as well. Um, clearly I don't naturally like to do that, that's why I'm loving to give it away. Um, but that, that did change my geniuses over time. But that's infrequent, and it's... You shouldn't see too much as, of a shift when you're retaking it [00:13:00] because it's supposed to be the things you enjoy versus what you don't like to do. Um, but we have seen some minor cases of shifts in the past
Christine Kurtz: Interesting. Uh, what do you like about the Working Genius framework compared to other workplace personality assessment tools?
Shakheana Harrison: So the thing I like most about The Working Genius is how easy it is to com- to talk about. Um, I think you can take the assessment one time, look through the results that they send you, and you can understand it. I think while you're looking at the results, you can even tie it back to people you're around pretty often.
It doesn't take a lot to understand it. If you think about DiSC or you think about some of those other assessments, it's hard. It's easy to recognize yourself, but it's kind of sometimes hard to recognize others. Whereas with The Working Genius, you can sit in a meeting with people you've never met with before, and you can say, that's a galvanizer.
This person is tenacious. Here's your wanderer. Oh my gosh, this person has to be [00:14:00] invention. It's very easy to it even if you aren't a licensed facilitator. And I think that's one of the reasons it stuck really well within the organization
Christine Kurtz: Have you ever had anyone balk at their results? Like, "Oh, no, no, no, that's not me," and, like, have trouble getting on board? Yeah. How do you coach them through that? Do you have to kind of open their eyes? Do you have them take it again?
Terrence McCorkle: Yeah. Um, we have seen that happen. Um, I always refer them back to the, just the working genius model in general, meaning that we have all six geniuses. So it's not to say that if something shows up as a frustration that you can't operate there. You can, um, it's just really given over time, um, that type of work doesn't naturally bring you energy. Um, so that's one point I personally try to stress is that everyone has all six geniuses. just a matter of what do you naturally get energy from? [00:15:00]
Christine Kurtz: Have, similar to that vein, have you ever had someone be like, "No, no, no thank you. That's not in my working genius"?
Shakheana Harrison: So one of the things we talk about is, you know, we're going to spend time working in our frustrations sometimes. Um, we have a rule, like an 80/20 rule. 80% of your work should be within your geniuses and competencies, 20% in your frustrations. The example I use when I'm coaching someone through something like this is I do not like doing expense reports.
Really anything with a spreadsheet, I would love to get someone else to do it. However, uh, in the role I'm in, I'm required to do that. I'm required to do budgeting, you know, those type of things that require a spreadsheet, and I, I have to own that. And so when people do show up in that way, y- you know, there are two ways to assess it.
One is how much of your time is spent there? The other one is, are you in a role that's not suited for you? And then we can start that conversation too
Christine Kurtz: I love that it gives you, it's like a [00:16:00] tool to have those difficult conversations and to help redirect and guide, um, when, when things might get frustrating, like you're saying
Susan Cort: Yeah. Shakheana, talk a little bit, or Terrence, about how you take these results and use them to help develop individuals and, and then maybe also what does this look like on a day-to-day basis?
Shakheana Harrison: So one of the ways that we've used it, and it hasn't been, and I won't say that this is scaled across the entire organization yet. Um, but when we're looking at coaching opportunities for employees, we would like to match someone with another person who has similar, um, geniuses because they can relate to each other in ways that I think someone else couldn't.
So for instance, if I gave someone, um, gave a galvanizer, a person with a frustration of galvanizing, they may try to coach them in a way that works for them, and that's not how it's going to work for a person who has that as a [00:17:00] frustration. So that's one of the ways we've, um, used it in-house for developing our talent. Um, I wanna say that's probably the most, um, we've used it in that way beyond identifying like love, like work that people love and work that people loathe and saying, "Okay, is the, are the things on the loathe list correlated to their working genius as well? Or is it something that they're learning, and so they're not extremely confident in that space yet, and that's causing the, the
Christine Kurtz: Yeah.
Shakheana Harrison: them?"
Christine Kurtz: Uh-huh
Terrence McCorkle: You know, the thing that comes to mind too is we definitely, as far as with geniuses, um, you know, your geniuses are your geniuses, and we definitely don't try to develop you to those.
Christine Kurtz: Yeah
Terrence McCorkle: to just find work that, that complements those geniuses. So yeah.
Shakheana Harrison: And then I'll, I'll add one other thing to that. We encourage collaboration when you're working... Like, if you know you're doing work where you [00:18:00] do have to invite in that galvanizer or you do have to invite in that discerner, we're intentionally asking people to go seek that out and providing them with tools, um, to use when geniuses aren't represented, what that leads to, to help them want to go and seek that help out
Christine Kurtz: I love that. I like supporting the collaboration and just really having them interact with one another rather than forcing them to struggle alone. I think that's, a great way to use that. Have you, since implementing this, have you gotten feedback from leaders or from their employees about the working genius framework?
Terrence McCorkle: Yes. Um, so most of the feedback, um, has been Uh, leaders like it, employees, uh, like it as well. Um, it's really a way for teams to be able to work together and to thrive. Um, also too, again, it's based on productivity, so there were so many unknowns [00:19:00] before we introduced this framework. Um, not knowing, you know, why do people show up to meetings the way that they do?
So this, uh, framework kind of helps explain that. Um, so we've had, uh, people just really like using it. Um, we have people even outside of L&D who are certified within the organization. Um, so lots of people passionate about it. Um, and yeah, it, it's just been pretty good. Uh, to your point earlier, maybe someone takes the assessment and they struggle with having, you know, two areas that may be a frustration to them. Um, but you know, we explain that, you know, everyone has all six geniuses, and it's really just more of where you thrive, uh, as far as working. So yeah, a lot of, um, good feedback
Shakheana Harrison: And I'll add just when we first, first introduced it, there was a little bit of resistance from people who didn't wanna feel like they were being placed in a box or that the results would be used against them
Christine Kurtz: Yeah
Shakheana Harrison: And so we had to create a culture [00:20:00] where people understood all geniuses were wanted, were necessary, needed, and valued.
And that way people didn't look at that and get afraid of what could these results mean for me? How could my leader leverage these against me? And it was more wanted them to view it as a tool to help their leaders understand them better and give them work that gave them more satisfaction. And so I think in the beginning there was a little bit of hesitancy just because people...
It was new. People didn't know what it would mean for them. But over the years since we've been talking about it and having those constant, um, conversations, it's-- I think that that stress or that worry has lifted completely,
Christine Kurtz: good
Shakheana Harrison: even for those who were, like, against it in the beginning
Christine Kurtz: Well, and now they see it's just part of your culture and there hasn't been a negative fallout
Susan Cort: Yeah, I'm sure people probably feel very seen and very heard through the assessment and, and seeing how your organization's putting it into practice, and hopefully that leads to better [00:21:00] development and retention. know, when you're looking though at your organization as a whole, how would you say using Working Genius has made Texas 811 run better and, and achieve your mission?
Shakheana Harrison: I would say, going back to what you said, people feel seen, heard, and understood. And when we're seeking out, like creating these opportunities to seek out people, um, in ways that will allow them to work in those genius spaces more, it just gives them energy so they're happy. Like a lot of times when we have these, um, wonder, invention, discernment meetings, we're intentionally going out and finding people with those geniuses and bringing them in.
And when they walk out of that space, they are like walking on clouds because they just spent an hour and a half in an o- operating in a space that gives them natural energy. And so it's like a, it's like a shot of Dopamine every time we host those types of meetings or when we bring in an, um, an execution team and we're foot, we're in that enablement [00:22:00] tenacity phase where people are excited to show up and help out and push work through the finish line. They leave those meetings energized because they got work done. And so I think that has created this space where people show up and want to work together. They want to see the end result. They're working in spaces where they naturally get joy and it doesn't feel pressure. And knowing that, yeah, we do spend some space in frustrations, that's natural, but maximizing where they get their joy and energy from
Christine Kurtz: What excites me about what you guys just said is that, so you were, you were saying the Working Genius framework kind of has this lens on productivity, and I think there can be some negative connotations or some bad feelings when we talk about, you know, making people more productive. Um, but it's, the way you're looking at it, it's not like, how do we churn more things out?
It's how do we tap [00:23:00] into who people truly are, you said what brings them joy, and in order to get better results. And I, I think that's just such a, a great way, a great lens on it.
Susan Cort: I was thinking too, like certainly this could apply to any organization, any business, any industry, but specifically in the 811 space. I mean, do you see anything unique about how you've leveraged, um, Working Genius in an 811 organization and how it relates to, uh, you know, your mission on safety and, and education?
Shakheana Harrison: I don't think that it's industry specific. The way that it's set up, it can work anywhere. I mean, even in my house, like I know my entire family's working geniuses and their frustrations and, and it shows sometimes. We know our kids who don't have tenacity versus those who do. And, you know, it's, it-- I don't, I don't think it does anything [00:24:00] specific for any specific industry.
I think that if it's leveraged correctly, it will work anywhere within any organization. But I will add that there are other centers, other, uh, states who have adopted this and have gone through the workshop, and have introduced their, their leadership team and different departments to the concept of working genius.
And based on my interactions with those individuals, they it's still alive and well within their organizations too. And even some of their employees have gotten certified so that they can keep it alive, um, without us being involved
Susan Cort: Great.
Christine Kurtz: Mm-hmm.
Susan Cort: So what would you see as some, maybe some next steps for what you're doing from a training and development standpoint at Texas 811?
Shakheana Harrison: So one of the things that we want to do is, um, we want to... We're, we're actually getting more people certified so that we can have others advocating for it and teaching it in their respective areas within the organization. [00:25:00] A lot of what we're doing now moving forward in L&D is capability versus dependency.
So this is part of that model, where we're introducing more people, getting them in using it and speaking about it so that they can talk even in rooms we're not in. Um, so that's one of the biggest things that we see for, uh, for Working Genius. Terence, do you wanna talk about, like, anything that we're planning to do beyond Working Genius?
Terrence McCorkle: Yeah. Um, I, I guess the thing that just comes to mind to me is we're just, again, mindful once we're introducing new things, like just connecting it back to Working Genius, uh, to keep it alive, and maybe it's a different initiative, but show, you know, how it's of value to use it for whatever, um, we're doing
Christine Kurtz: I like that. So what advice, you said other people are getting trained, what advice do you kind of give them as they're getting started out? Or you're saying other centers are using it, so another center if they came to you and said, you know, "What, what can we learn from you?" What would you [00:26:00] say?
Terrence McCorkle: Um, I would say first, you know, buy-in is important. So you would definitely want to make sure that hopefully leadership is bought in. That does help. We've seen a lot of success, when we do roll initiatives out with buy-in at the top. But also too, just making sure it's not treated as a one-time assessment. The work should be ongoing. And also too, you know, showing the value of, of using it. Um, also too, um, using the language of working geniuses. I think that's important if this is something that someone wants to introduce to the organization. Um, and kind of to our point earlier, just making sure it's not used to put someone in a box, uh, knowing that everyone has all six geniuses.
Um, again, focusing more, you want to work in the areas that you naturally, that naturally give you energy. Um, so I'd say that. Uh, but yeah, that's kind of my, my advice there.
Shakheana Harrison: I can add just a little bit more. I think that, you know, one of the things I want to double down on, on what he said was it's not a [00:27:00] one-time assessment. I think if you're introducing it, the book, it's a fable, it's an easy read by Patrick Lencioni, highly recommend that. And then the workshops.
I think the workshops are critical as well, um, because that's where you get to see the working genius come alive. And even when you're, when you have a great facilitator, you can see it in their facilitation too. And
Christine Kurtz: Yeah
Shakheana Harrison: it's helpful there. But, and then giving leaders the tools on how to use it effectively so that it doesn't feel weaponized for their employees, I think that's also critical
Susan Cort: Yeah, great advice. We'll put a link to the, the resources and the book in the show notes. And we can't thank you enough for joining us today. It was really interesting and I think inspirational for any organization, like you said, not just 811 organizations, but really this could apply to, to any business or organization in any industry.
So thank you for taking the time to talk with us today.
Shakheana Harrison: You're welcome.
Terrence McCorkle: Thank you for having us.
Susan Cort: My thanks to d'Vinci's Christine Kurtz [00:28:00] and our guests from Texas 811, Terrance McCorkle and Shakheana Harrison, for joining me today. If you have an idea for a topic or guest, please reach out to us at poweredbylearning@dvinci.com. And don't forget that you can subscribe to Powered by Learning wherever you listen to your podcasts.
